I think you're such a talented writer Frances, your posts often have such humor and heart in them (which feels almost weird to say given the subject matter here), while also articulating things so well. I'm glad you're able to use writing as an outlet, and I often find myself coming back to previous things you've written because the often stick with me or you've expressed something I want to so well
I'm working on something similar and seeing so much of my experience in yours has really helped. You're so right about victims look at others whose stories eventually got traction and feeling inadequate or otherwise bad about the fact that they don't/didn't have that support.
I really admire your eloquence in talking about these emotionally charged topics in a graceful way, it's something I aspire to.
Thank you so so much Ivy, I've been thinking about your writing lately. I find it deeply intelligent and I learn a lot from it, I will definitely be reading whatever you end up posting. I'm also in awe of how clear-eyed you are even in the face of immense cowardice and injustice.
Dear Frances: I always learn so much when I read your posts. They are really well thought out and sensitive, and as Max says, you always manage to include humor and heart in them. And like this one, a lot of your posts are so brave (not as 'brave' in a general, congratulatory way, but in a 'articulates ugly realities that people prefer to avoid talking or thinking about' kind of way). I don't mind publicly saying that I really look up to you, more than anyone else I know from EA, as the moral exemplar of a good person (definitely, a better person than myself) and this means I trust you enough to always read with attention and openness to the claims you make, even when a priori I'd feel like I'd disagree. It might sound trite, but I do believe the world is made better because it has people like you in it.
I am an ignoramus in anything appertaining to these issues, so I fear saying anything stupid or tactless. I was pondering on this when reading "“But many do not have models of abuse; and so, when it’s done by someone they know, they unintentionally minimise it". I was also thinking that some aspects of EA mentality (on excessive suspicion of emotional discourse, and an overextension of detached cost-benefit reasoning into domains where it can seriously misfire) can be particularly ill-suited to questions like these.
Thank you so much Manuel, thank you for always engaging with my writing so carefully and thoughtfully and for the incredibly kind words. I'm genuinely honored. Yes, I agree with your last point very much. I think most social groups are governed by a kind of base, simplified, underlying worldview. And all members of that group then have their own personal, vastly more complicated, differentiated and individual worldviews, but a group can't collectively hold something at that level of complexity. So when operating in the group, everyone is kind of operating within that average, flattened, more simple view to a degree. And then normally, that view helps people coordinate and roughly works for creating shared norms and such and is positive, and then sometimes it breaks. And I think the EA one breaks when abuse occurs.
I am a long-time observer and mostly admirer but not direct participator in EA, and I felt so profoundly moved by this post and your previous one that I had to comment.
It takes an incredible depth of character to say “This organization did something horrible to me, and yet I think the CEO truly regretted it/there are many good people still in it/humans are complex.” It’s so hard to hold these seemingly conflicting opinions and I deeply admire you for it, and for writing so well about it.
I understand why you regretted using the word cowardice, but I think it was the perfect word for what happened. It’s so easy to turn away from the right thing to do (certainly I’ve done it myself) but it is cowardice. And you’ve shown an incredible amount of bravery by writing this. Thank you.
Lauren, thank you so much for this comment. It's very kind and it meant a lot, and I really appreciate the last point too, thank you. I've certainly done it myself as well.
I've long enjoyed how sincere you are online, and really respect your choice to be open and earnest in public, even when it creates the possibility of having your traumas and vulnerabilities litigated by a crowd of strangers. I'm so sorry that you've experienced both rape and sexual harassment. It feels odd, right after that, to congratulate you on claiming some agency and making your story heard, but I want to express that, too. Recovery and resilience are a winding path and I wish you continued grace in navigating them. Thank you for your generosity in offering so many of your thoughts to the internet; I look forward to what you write next.
I think you're such a talented writer Frances, your posts often have such humor and heart in them (which feels almost weird to say given the subject matter here), while also articulating things so well. I'm glad you're able to use writing as an outlet, and I often find myself coming back to previous things you've written because the often stick with me or you've expressed something I want to so well
Thank you so so so so much Max
Fran, thank you so much for writing this.
I'm working on something similar and seeing so much of my experience in yours has really helped. You're so right about victims look at others whose stories eventually got traction and feeling inadequate or otherwise bad about the fact that they don't/didn't have that support.
I really admire your eloquence in talking about these emotionally charged topics in a graceful way, it's something I aspire to.
Thank you so so much Ivy, I've been thinking about your writing lately. I find it deeply intelligent and I learn a lot from it, I will definitely be reading whatever you end up posting. I'm also in awe of how clear-eyed you are even in the face of immense cowardice and injustice.
thank you <3
Dear Frances: I always learn so much when I read your posts. They are really well thought out and sensitive, and as Max says, you always manage to include humor and heart in them. And like this one, a lot of your posts are so brave (not as 'brave' in a general, congratulatory way, but in a 'articulates ugly realities that people prefer to avoid talking or thinking about' kind of way). I don't mind publicly saying that I really look up to you, more than anyone else I know from EA, as the moral exemplar of a good person (definitely, a better person than myself) and this means I trust you enough to always read with attention and openness to the claims you make, even when a priori I'd feel like I'd disagree. It might sound trite, but I do believe the world is made better because it has people like you in it.
I am an ignoramus in anything appertaining to these issues, so I fear saying anything stupid or tactless. I was pondering on this when reading "“But many do not have models of abuse; and so, when it’s done by someone they know, they unintentionally minimise it". I was also thinking that some aspects of EA mentality (on excessive suspicion of emotional discourse, and an overextension of detached cost-benefit reasoning into domains where it can seriously misfire) can be particularly ill-suited to questions like these.
Thank you so much Manuel, thank you for always engaging with my writing so carefully and thoughtfully and for the incredibly kind words. I'm genuinely honored. Yes, I agree with your last point very much. I think most social groups are governed by a kind of base, simplified, underlying worldview. And all members of that group then have their own personal, vastly more complicated, differentiated and individual worldviews, but a group can't collectively hold something at that level of complexity. So when operating in the group, everyone is kind of operating within that average, flattened, more simple view to a degree. And then normally, that view helps people coordinate and roughly works for creating shared norms and such and is positive, and then sometimes it breaks. And I think the EA one breaks when abuse occurs.
I am a long-time observer and mostly admirer but not direct participator in EA, and I felt so profoundly moved by this post and your previous one that I had to comment.
It takes an incredible depth of character to say “This organization did something horrible to me, and yet I think the CEO truly regretted it/there are many good people still in it/humans are complex.” It’s so hard to hold these seemingly conflicting opinions and I deeply admire you for it, and for writing so well about it.
I understand why you regretted using the word cowardice, but I think it was the perfect word for what happened. It’s so easy to turn away from the right thing to do (certainly I’ve done it myself) but it is cowardice. And you’ve shown an incredible amount of bravery by writing this. Thank you.
Lauren, thank you so much for this comment. It's very kind and it meant a lot, and I really appreciate the last point too, thank you. I've certainly done it myself as well.
I've long enjoyed how sincere you are online, and really respect your choice to be open and earnest in public, even when it creates the possibility of having your traumas and vulnerabilities litigated by a crowd of strangers. I'm so sorry that you've experienced both rape and sexual harassment. It feels odd, right after that, to congratulate you on claiming some agency and making your story heard, but I want to express that, too. Recovery and resilience are a winding path and I wish you continued grace in navigating them. Thank you for your generosity in offering so many of your thoughts to the internet; I look forward to what you write next.